With vs From: The Debate Goes Mainstream-Part 1

What % of patients are in the hospital from ailments related to Covid versus in the hospital and just happen to test positive with Covid. The debate is out in the open now.

Join us today at noon pacific / 3:00 eastern to discuss this topic on Callin!

With Dr. Fauci’s admission that children currently hospitalized as Omicron patients are probably there for some reason altogether unrelated to Covid. They are patients “with” Covid rather than “from” Covid. This is an argument Team Reality has been making for a very long time so it’s nice of our health overlords to join the discussion.

One of our Twitter colleagues, Brock Burt, crafted a masterful and lengthy thread about this topic and described the evidence. We reproduce it for you below:

Thread from Brock Burt (@brocklyboy)

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The “WITH” vs “FROM” debate

We are unquestionably, undeniably, per policy counting deaths WITH Covid and not from it, and have been doing so the entire time. I will lay out evidence demonstrating that this is not a matter of opinion or subjective interpretation, this is 100% objective reality... 1/x

In early 2020 a group from an association of epidemiologists (CSTE) proposed a case definition for SARS-CoV2 which would establish the criteria by which someone could be identified (or ruled out) and reported as a Covid case... 2/x https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.cste.org/resource/resmgr/ps/positionstatement2020/Interim-20-ID-01_COVID-19_NO.pdf…

It was adopted almost in full by the CDC, officially published April 5 2020 and updated twice since then. Most of the report concerns "probable cases," or how to report someone as positive without a lab test to confirm... 3/x https://ndc.services.cdc.gov/conditions/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/…

"Confirmed cases" were less complicated: simply testing positive by PCR. However its simplicity also meant that all positive PCR tests were confirmed cases, regardless of symptoms or any illness in the patient... 4/x

It also means if any of those "confirmed cases" died, they fell into the category of "confirmed death." We'll see that this is inferred policy. The only part of the CDC's guidelines that mentions death deals with "probable death" without a history of testing... 5/x

Since Trump left it up to each state to come up with their own policies, each state and sometimes individual counties came up with details how to comply with the CDC's guidelines for reporting... 6/x

Most states crafted policies using the exact language of the CDC. However, confirmed deaths weren't clarified by the CDC. If a confirmed case is in relation to a positive PCR test, how much time can pass before somebody's death for them to qualify as "confirmed death"?... 7/x

This was determined by public health. For example, Florida's public health essentially copy-pasted the CDC's definition and has not specified an interval of time between testing and death to qualify or not qualify as Covid death... 8/x http://floridahealth.gov/diseases-and-conditions/disease-reporting-and-management/disease-reporting-and-surveillance/_documents/covid-19-case-definition.pdf

Some states, like NJ here, haven't even copy-pasted the CDC's verbiage. They simply put a link to the CSTE definition adopted by the CDC, which again states that a confirmed case/death is a positive test, nothing more... 9/x

https://covid19.nj.gov

Most places that I've found who report their Covid data are like this, either linking to or reprinting what the CDC has stipulated. But some states have gone a little further with their case definitions and reporting requirements... 10/x

NYC Health Dept for example has stated that a "Confirmed death" is any death within 60 days of a positive PCR. Thus "confirmed" does not refer to having confirmed a cause of death, just a prior positive test... 11/x https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-totals.page…

Now, my own state of Oregon's policy is similar but with a twist. Here a Covid death (officially "Covid-19-related death") is a death within 60 days of a positive test, or 60 days of onset of symptoms in the absence of a test (probable case)... 12/x https://oregon.gov/oha/PH/DISEASESCONDITIONS/COMMUNICABLEDISEASE/REPORTINGCOMMUNICABLEDISEASE/REPORTINGGUIDELINES/Documents/Novel-Coronavirus-2019.pdf…

here's the twist: all hospitalized cases who die 60 days AFTER discharge FOR ANY REASON is a Covid death. Bonus twist: anybody who tests positive up to 2 weeks prior to hospitalization or anytime during is a "Covid hospitalization," no matter reason for admission... 13/x

In LA County, where last I checked there were 5 times as many "Covid deaths" as the next deadliest county, Providers are required to report the death of any person within 90 days of a positive PCR test. Again, there is no relation to cause of death... 14/x http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/acd/ncorona2019/reporting.htm#deaths…

And then there's Colorado. CO Public Health's FAQ page states explicitly that they count deaths with Covid. They ask themselves: Why count deaths with Covid if CoV didn't cause it? --Because all states do it, it's how the CDC wants it reported... 15/x https://covid19.colorado.gov/frequently-asked-questions-faq…

This ties in also with the way deaths are often described across media and government reports. Covid-19 associated deaths Covid-19 related deaths Deaths connected to Covid-19 In their weekly provisional death count, the CDC officially counts "deaths involving Covid-19"... 16/x

** completely as an aside, in case anyone's wondering why the same "deaths involving" language is used about flu & pneumonia in the previous CDC graphic, I haven't done much research into it, but here's some insight into flu data gathering... 17/x https://post-gazette.com/news/health/2020/04/22/Probable-cases-deaths-COVID-19-data-helps-overall-response-exposure-Pennsylvania/stories/202004220148…

Very early on some leaders were asked to account for these guidelines, or at the very least clarify them. Under Trump, Dr. Birx was chief physician of the WH Coronavirus Task Force. She clarified the CDC's guidelines... 18/x

From Press Conference April 7, 2020:The leaders of the White House Coronavirus Reponse Task Force explain how we are tracking deaths related to Covid. Dr. B...

Some may have seen Dr. Ngozi Ezike, director of Illinois Public Health, explain how the state of Illinois was gathering its data "...Covid death doesn't mean that that was the cause of death, but that they had Covid at the time of death" ... 19/x

Dr. Ngozi Ezike, director of Illinois Public Health, clarifies early on in the pandemic just what a 'Covid death' actually means. This is from a press confe...

One of the most interesting and revealing statements from a public health official about Covid statistical gathering came from Connecticut. On April 1, 2020 CT Governor Ned Lamont had some sad news and a strong warning to share with everyone... 20/x

On April 1, 2020 Connecticut Governor Ned Lamont announced the youngest ever Covid death, even though the Medical Examiner refused to sign off on that. It w...

The baby was asymptomatic but tested positive on autopsy. The medical examiner refused to sign off that Covid was the cause of death. Two days later, Lamont passed off a question about the baby to state epidemiologist Dr. Matthew Cartter... 21/x

Look for part 2 soon!